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Calculating the Output ABV

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Calculating the Output ABV

Postby punkin » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:47 pm

I'm hoping someone will know where to find the table i have seen before that shows distillation steps for a pot still. I thought it was on Harrys site in the Dilution Article, but i can't find it.

I'm leaning more and more nowadays to designing my still charge so it outputs the combined abv of product i intend to age or drink, rather than letting the charge dictate and then cutting to proof.



Just think it's gotta be the right way to do it for me. :idea:
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Postby big worm » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:59 pm

your talking about single running whisky? or something else like grain bill x gives = :)
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Postby duds2u » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:59 pm

Punkin. The table you're referring to. Was it to do with head temperatures v vapour % and wash percentage. It was it is one of Harrys.
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Postby pintoshine » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:46 pm

those graphs were a effort between me and harry. They are in my directory, in the photo album.
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Postby punkin » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:16 pm

Thanks Pint, this is the one i wanted...

http://www.artisan-distiller.org/photoa ... gif&var2=0

How do ya make it come up as a picture?


The actual one i was thinking of, i'm pretty sure it was shown in steps, like a bar graph?

But this one does what i want to do, plug a known % wash into the still and know what's gunna come out the other end.. i'll correlate it against Gonzo and see how close i come :wink: :8)
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Postby blanikdog » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:25 pm

I just compared some of my rough notes with the graph, and I have to admit pint, it's correct. :) :) :)

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Postby duds2u » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:27 pm

Don't forget you can do it the other way as well.

Plug in required %ABV and work out what you need to dilute the wash to.
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Postby big worm » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:31 pm

on that graph...a 10% wash boiling at 199.5f would be pulling off 55%abv at the output?
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Postby blanikdog » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:04 am

Works perfectly for me. I'm running a pot still with a thermometer so it may just be coincidence depending on where the thermometer is located????

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Postby punkin » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:06 am

duds2u wrote:Don't forget you can do it the other way as well.

Plug in required %ABV and work out what you need to dilute the wash to.


Yes, that's the point.

I don't want to water my flavoured spirits back down for a while, just want to water down the low wines and combine the cuts from the still to give me barrell strength or drinking proof or whatever.

gunna try letting the mash speak for itself for awhile, see what it says.

So i'll take a mash/wash and boost it up to the strength i want from the graph with stripped wash/mash (or even with neutral?) and then age what comes out after cuts and see where it leads me..... :arrow:
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Postby Harry » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:47 am

Hi Punkin,


The graphs Pint & I made are easy enough to use on paper, but Tony Ackland has a calculator that does the same job you want to do.

Somebody on the Distillers group just asked a related question (msg here... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/44167)

Guts of the message reply is this...

"Pot still = 1 plate

Pot still + 1 thumper = 2 plates

Pot still + 2 thumpers = 3 plates

Getting the pattern?


Whiskies are usually charged to the spirit still (2nd still) at 27-30%
a/v. Then given a single distillation, which yields potable spirit at
around 70+% a/v.

Use Tony's site to get a handle on this.
Try the first calculator at 30% and 1 plate.
http://homedistiller.org/refluxdesign.htm"
.


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Postby pintoshine » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:35 am

How do ya make it come up as a picture?


I only use Firefox, but most browsers are capable of the following procedure.

1. Right click the picture.
2. Select View Image
3. when the new tab or window opens, right click the picture.
4. Select save image as...
5. select a directory and hit ok
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Postby zymos » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:32 am

Can ya' make a 3D one with the Z axis as elevation above sea level? :D

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Postby punkin » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:23 pm

Yes, thanks guys. Harry, does it sound sensible to you (i'm sure i'm not the first to think about it) that i could do a low yeild, full flavoured allgrain mash, ferment it out, and then boost it up to say 20% when charging the still with an addition of neutral hearts (rather than stripped mash), to single run a whiskey round the 65% / 68% mark? Kinda a backward fortification/weak spirit run...

Have any of you guys done this and what were the results?

Would your pallatte pick the sugar spirit if it came from this process Pint, do you think?

What led me to this train was the feeling that i should be designing my still charge to run at the output % that i want when doing spirit runs of ujsm ect, i would just dilute the stripped low wines with wash t reach the desired input that will give me the desired output.
Of course that will mean i'll have to know my wash abv which i don't usually bother with.
I figure this should give me much more flavour at the expense of broader, more difficult cuts and a lower yeild (run more often).

If this hasn't been commonly practised and explored at home i intend to pursue it and make my own conclusions :oops:
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Postby Harry » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:33 pm

punkin wrote:Yes, thanks guys. Harry, does it sound sensible to you (i'm sure i'm not the first to think about it) that i could do a low yeild, full flavoured allgrain mash, ferment it out, and then boost it up to say 20% when charging the still with an addition of neutral hearts (rather than stripped mash), to single run a whiskey round the 65% / 68% mark? Kinda a backward fortification/weak spirit run...




There's nothing wrong with that approach. I do something similar that gives great flavour and clean whisky. But I don't use sugar wash hearts. Rather I use malt hearts. Let me explain...


My fermenter yields 51 litres of wash (+ a bit of trub), which I make at around 12%. My still holds 25 litres. So I do my run in stages.

Stage 1:
Split the wash into 3 charges, 17 litres each.
Strip the first one. The yield is 5 litres of low wines @ ~55% a/v.

Stage 2:
Charge the still again with 17 litres of wash, + the 5 litres of 55% low wines. The combined charge is ~18% a/v. The yield from this run is 6 litres of low wines @ ~65%.

Stage 3:
Charge the still with the remaining 17 litres of wash. Add the 6 litres of 65% low wines. The combined charge is ~25% a/v. The yield from this final run is 8.5 litres of low wines @ ~70%.

This is the spirit you put on oak.

All the pot-ale (what's called Hot Slops in US) is re-used for the next mash.



Now some reasons...

Stage 1 is a standard strip. 1/3 of your total ethanol has been through once.

Stage 2 produces a strip where 1/3 of your total ethanol has been through the still twice, and 1/3 once.

Stage 3 produces your final spirit at the desired strength for barrelling. And 1/3 of the ethanol has been through once, 1/3 has been through twice, and 1/3 has been through 3 times.

All in all it makes for a very clean & flavoursome product without resorting to additions from foreign spirits. It's all the same batch. No additives. And achieved in just 3 runs.
.


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