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assisted oaking

If you are testing new material or old materials in a new way, tell us about it.

Postby punkin » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:13 pm

Sometimes we say things that should be rethought, apologised for, and if offensive, removed.

Often it is more honest to leave our mistakes to be seen, it is up to an individual to differentiate between the two.

Sometimes help or other interaction can be revoked. In the case of me removing comments that Moke took exception to here, it's not that i wanted to change anything i said, just that i couldn't be fucked arguing with him. :roll:

There's lots of honest reasons to edit what's been said, without trying to edit in order to make y'self look better...that's one thing you won't see me do.
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Postby big worm » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:14 pm

i edit some times....i read what i posted and add on usualy because im an Idot :P
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Postby blanikdog » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:11 pm

Me too, worm. I usually edit as soon as I read what I posted and find I left half of what I was trying to say out of the post.

I can't for the life of me remember any mods in here editing posts to sound better though. If this includes me, I humbly apologise.

Now for the reason I wanted to add to this thread. I can't see oak rotting in alcohol because I finished a half gallon flagon of rum two nights back and there was a spider ... AND ... a fly in the bottom. Both had been there for some time and were in perfect condition, although neither moved at all.

Nice rum too, perhaps spiders and flies make a good aging additive. :shock:

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Postby Decoy » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:59 pm

big worm wrote:i edit some times....i read what i posted and add on usualy because im an Idot :P


blanikdog wrote:Me too, worm. I usually edit as soon as I read what I posted and find I left half of what I was trying to say out of the post.


I read what i posted before submitting, then i read it afterwards and there are letters and words missing buggerd if i know how i do it.. :oops:
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby trthskr4 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:21 pm

I've got one of those vacuum baggers (Foodsaver) for freezing meats and veggies. It came with a hose for attachments and I bought the one for a canning jar and have done a quart of already oaking/aging for 3 months all grain and left one regular and go back and shake and open the jar every now and then and blow in some air.

I think pressurizing would work better and then go by and shake it every now and then. That would force the liquid molecules into the wood better than negative pressure and shaking would circulate the distillate.

No proof just thoughts.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby trthskr4 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:44 pm

Wife was calling me to eat and had to run away quickly...

Came back to say that I don't think there's a substitute for time in the oaking and aging but if we can find a way of assisting it, all the better.

I have noticed that my all grains take more time to color than the sugar/corn or anything with sugar really. Don't know why.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby hank » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:41 pm

the feeling i get is there are a few things going on inside an oak barrel. for one the wood is porous to air but not liquid, something do do with the size of the molecules. Alcohol and water will not flow through but, the VAPOR will. Alcohol molecules being larger than water molecules tend to not flow thru the wood as well as water molecules, air molecules are smaller still, so they flow RELATIVELY easily thru the wood. It seems if this correct, that water and alcohol vapor permeate the wood, the water further than the alcohol, eventually making its way clear thru to the exterior, the alcohol not so far. This happens when the weather is warm. Upon cooler temps. alcohol retreats back into the barrel, along with water ( all this is vapor still) but a portion of the water having made its way to the exterior of the barrel of course is lost to the atmoshere. As the alochol retreats back into the barrel it, acting as a solvent picks up all those good vanillins, and carmels all that good stuff and takes it with it. AND as the air is transfused relitivley freely thru the wood it acts to oxidise the nasties that may be present, think oxidising acedic acid (I think it is )to ethenol, just like adding bicarbonate to your distillate. ANOTHER process I think going on is the carbon in the char is absorbing other volitile compounds, think giving charcoal to victims of poisoning to absorb it. Now as a cabinet maker I think all these thinks come together in WHITE OAK. White oak having just the right properties for all this to happen. Porous but not too porous,the right amount of tannins and sugars, and also I would think the THICKNESS of the barrles staves would have an impact on the process. Just my $20.00 worth ( kinda long..sorry) :soapbox: probably shouldnt post when i been drinkin, just my feelins on the subject. May be some chemists, or scientists say Im clear wrong. If so fine I would love to hear what they have to say, just a dumb old country boy here tryin to make sense of this big ol world.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby hank » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:55 pm

Trthskr4, I too have noticed that all grain takes more time to color that sugar, aka UJSM. I would love to know the reason behind this observation.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby vb » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:03 am

I've found that different pieces of oak will impart color and flavor differently.
I've added charred oak to my distillate, and had an almost instant color change, and other times I've waited a month and its only gained very little color.
best luck I've had is with toasted oak aging sticks I've bought at the wine shop, I take the torch to them and char them up nicely, and cut them in half. I've also used chuncks of barrel staves that I've cut down and toasted up, that just didn't add much color, flavor was fine though.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby big worm » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:34 am

i had ujssm and all grain side by side ujssm has twice the color. its strange both flavor up about the same but one won't take the color.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby vb » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:51 am

thats funny, cause I did an all grain a while back and you could almost see the waves of color flowing off the sticks,
day 1 it was yellow, day 2 it was amber, within 2 weeks it was a nice whiskey brown.
my last batch of rum, after two weeks (scraped and charred used barel stave compared to the charred aging stick) it had the color that the all grain had after 2 days.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby BW Redneck » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:18 pm

I've even seen different grain bills for all grain take up color differently. Wheat and oats based spirits never get beyond an amber during their entire rest on wood, but corn based whiskies turn a dark cherry red-brown color within a few weeks.

Edit: Maybe we better consider inviting The Chemist to this board. He has a better background for dealing with this sort of thing.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby trthskr4 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:02 pm

He kind of sits back and only gets in on a topic if someone really screws up or has a totally whacked idea. I really wish he was more active on the board and I lose sleep at night trying to figure out what the hell he does for a living. It ain't that far from one end of this state to another and I'd love to crawl up his ass and really learn some things about this hobby.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby duds2u » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:07 am

He's in the commercial industry and has to be very circumvent in what he says outside the alcohol manufacturing industry.
Maybe Pint should personally invite him.
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Re: assisted oaking

Postby pintoshine » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:44 am

I will on the 15th when I get UNBANNED.
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