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Green Apples

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Green Apples

Postby sasquatch » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:28 pm

Can you cook and convert the starch in green apples to sugar?
Like an all grain mash.

My apple tree is loaded but I can't leave them on to get ripe for long because of the bears always get it.
Even if I leave them to ripe in a box they still have lots of starch.

Was thinking of making some cider but it will be all starch and no sugar,

If anyone has any answers I would love to hear them.
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Re: Green Apples

Postby zedzedtop » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:06 am

I'm not sure if apple starch will convert on its own with heat like agave hearts do with inulin, if that's what you mean by cook. Maybe at mash temp with some malt or other enzyme source. Why not give it a go with some test samples? You might have better luck letting them ripen off the tree, but this won't work if it's more than a month before physiological ripeness, so perhaps you could wait a bit longer before boxing them?

Maybe you could convert the bears.
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Re: Green Apples

Postby Pa_bon » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:49 am

"Maybe you could convert the bears."


Into rice and gravy............
Overhead the albatross
Hangs motionless upon the air
And deep beneath the rolling waves
In labyrinths of coral caves
An echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand
And everything is green and submarine

Pink Floyd
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Re: Green Apples

Postby Tdick » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:08 pm

Pa_bon wrote:"Maybe you could convert the bears."

Into rice and gravy............

stewed bear and rice.jpg

oh yeah!
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Re: Green Apples

Postby sasquatch » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:06 pm

Have a few trouble makes around this year. Lost all my turkey's to two separate bears.
Got one but the other is still out there and they do come back.

Its hard to find anything about apple starch conversion on the web.
I found this but I need help to understand it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 4603006010

Characterization of starch in apple juice and its degradation by amylases

Abstract

Soluble and insoluble starches from apple juice (Granny Smith variety) at different degree of ripeness were separated and quantified by an iodometric method. Non pasteurised unripe apple juice had as much as 8 g/L starch, 2 weeks before usual harvest date. However, juices obtained from unripe apples stored for 3 weeks at room temperature, had undetectable starch contents. Scanning electron micrographs (SEM) showed apple starch granules are particles of regular shape (mean diameter=9.21 μm, standard deviation=2.74). SEM studies also revealed that after pasteurising apple juice (90 °C, 5 min) virtually all the starch granules lost their spherical structure and only gel-like starch fragments dispersed among the other components of haze (pectin, cell wall, etc.) were observed. Röhalase HT (RO) and Tyazyme L300 (TY) amylases normally used in fruit juices clarification, even in doses lower than those industrially recommended, quickly reduced starch contents in pasteurised juices to undetectable values. Microscopy studies also demonstrated that RO enzyme efficiently degraded raw apple starch granules, which showed evidence of centrifugal and centripetal hydrolysis.
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Re: Green Apples

Postby zedzedtop » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:56 pm

It's a poorly-written abstract, but it seems to say that starch will convert in apples that are harvested two week earlier than usual harvest date, as long as they are stored for three weeks. Doesn't say what the starch converts to, and the microscopy part seems redundant.

Perhaps you could ask at or poke around on the cider list/forum? I have a few cider books, plus 'The Apple Grower,' so perhaps I'll flip through those later to see if I can find anything out. How early are you planning to harvest, and what characterization tools do you have access to?
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Re: Green Apples

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:47 am

ZZ, doesn't it seem likely that the starch will just lyse to simpler polysaccharides like dextrins or simple sugars?
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Re: Green Apples

Postby zedzedtop » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:41 am

It does, but it would be good to know. I know that sugars will increase in certain instances once apples are off the tree, but what would be most pertinent is the specifics, like sugar development as a function of premature harvest time and initial starch content and makeup. I suppose variety and climate would be relevant as well. For cider, apples are usually allowed to develop for some weeks after harvest, but I can't remember all the reasons for this. I know that there are reasons other than sugar development.
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