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Steam Injection for Spirits Run

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Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby sugarcreek » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:24 pm

Subject says it all, is it possible to use direct steam injection for a spirits run? Is it advisable? Seems to me your tails would be horrifically drawn out.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby punkin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:33 pm

Why do you want to? Is it an equipment shortage?
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby sugarcreek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:55 am

It's a debate I'm having with another guy. I acquired a 550 gallon stainless tote. Didn't really need it but the price was too good to pass up. What we do need is a stripping still. Someone told me we could us it for a spirits run but I couldnt see how that was anything but a bad idea -- you'd be adding nearly 100 gallons of water before it ever got up to working temp. And even more for the phase change. Beginning to wonder if I couldnt rig up a two or three inch coil of stanless rather than direct injection.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby punkin » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:11 am

Or you could just run a smaller spirt still. 150 gallon will take three strips? Direct injection single jacket electric.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby Azframer » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:40 am

Now that is funny because I have been wondering the same thing myself. After all the reading on what a PITA the separation process was with an all grain and reading what Myles was saying about direct injecting steam instead. I was debating for 2 days about asking about a 15.5-gallon keg and if I could create enough steam for a pot still.
Even if I just went with a pot still head for the keg how much head room would I need to be left over to go steam?
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:52 pm

I ran the numbers on that, once, and if I remember correctly, if you heat a 10% ABV wash to boiling with direct injection, your wash volume would increase by about 13% before it boiled. After that, of course, the boiler wash would decrease with boiling.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby sugarcreek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:39 pm

Zymurgy Bob wrote:I ran the numbers on that, once, and if I remember correctly, if you heat a 10% ABV wash to boiling with direct injection, your wash volume would increase by about 13% before it boiled. After that, of course, the boiler wash would decrease with boiling.


Would the boiler volume decrease? It's take a lot more heat to change phase than to raise the temp.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:41 pm

As you condense enough steam (getting that phase-change energy) to bring the wash to a boil, that condensed stem increases the wash volume by 13% (still from memory). After it's boiling, a Kg (or gram or pound or tonne) of water condensing yields enough heat to vaporize a bit more of whatever ethanol is in your boiler (having a lower heat of vaporization than water) than that Kg of water you condensed, so the volume decreases slowly. Assuming perfect insulation, of course.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby sugarcreek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:15 pm

Zymurgy Bob wrote:As you condense enough steam (getting that phase-change energy) to bring the wash to a boil, that condensed stem increases the wash volume by 13% (still from memory). After it's boiling, a Kg (or gram or pound or tonne) of water condensing yields enough heat to vaporize a bit more of whatever ethanol is in your boiler (having a lower heat of vaporization than water) than that Kg of water you condensed, so the volume decreases slowly. Assuming perfect insulation, of course.


Ok, that makes sense. I was looking at steam tables (1064 BTU/lb of steam @ 15 PSI) latent heat of evaporation for a water/ethanol mixture (somewhere between 364 and 970 BTU/lb) and was coming up with a very slight decrease in total volume. I suppose my math wasnt too far off.

So.. it that a reasonable way to strip??
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby punkin » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:34 pm

All that info is in my black betty thread.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby S-Cackalacky » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:23 am

ZB is talking about steam injecting a wash and Sugarcreek is talking about steam injecting low wines? Is this about a single run of a wash using steam injection, or a steam injection spirit run of low wines? Need some clarification.

At the hobby level, I can see two approaches for on the grain distillation - steam injection with the boiler charged with water, or cleared wash in the boiler with spent grains and dregs in the thumper. Either one would avoid the necessity of straining/pressing grains. In either case a PRV should be incorporated in the setup. It's my understanding that a steam injection system is nothing more than a boiler and large thumper with a PRV and vacuum relief valve incorporated for safety.
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby Duracell » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:32 pm

<moved to new thread>
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Re: Steam Injection for Spirits Run

Postby punkin » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:27 pm

You could start a thread for the separate question so SC's thread can stay on track (or get back on track)?
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