• Advertisement

pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

This is for the general discussion about the whole process end to end.

pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby hoosier shine9 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:57 pm

I am not sure if this is the proper place to make this post. if not please let me know and I will attempt to move.....

I have 2 15 gallon Kegs. Currently have one of them set up to use for boiler. It has a 4500 watt electric element with controller. With a 4 inch flange on top.
The column is 4 inch all copper 6 plate.
I was wondering if I did the same set up on the second keg, separate controller as well.
Make a 4 inch copper "tee" 90 elbow on each end with flanges to connect to kegs and then put column onto the last side of the "tee".
Would this allow me to run 25 gallons (12.5 gallon in each keg) and work properly? Or would I be causing myself potential HAZARD?

I realize a single larger boiler would be best but "management" has suggested I refrain from spending money right now.

As I am typing I am seeing a potential issue.....
as the column is in reflux there would be NO way to determine what boiler excess water/mash would go back into.....overfilling one of the kegs..... :cry:
Did I just answer my own question??? :oops:
hoosier shine9
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Pa_bon » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:04 pm

Have considered the same for a pot still. Think it would look cool. Haven't gone further than that. Would like to know the answer also. Have a bunch of kegs.
Overhead the albatross
Hangs motionless upon the air
And deep beneath the rolling waves
In labyrinths of coral caves
An echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand
And everything is green and submarine

Pink Floyd
User avatar
Pa_bon
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:30 am
Location: Right here. Really, I'm right here.

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Pikey » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Hoosier, I know you can put two pots into one thumper and that will work fine - but here's another possibility from a question on another site. You can heat one still and use the second keg as a first stage of cooling, which then heats up the second keg and reduces fuel and cooling water and time. [Edit - when the alcohol is used from the mainn still, the charge is passed from the preheater and distillation is almost continuous. The preheter can again be charged with cold wash and so on until you are done ]

Sadly, that again is in pot stillery !

http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=66230

I don't really know whether your proposal would work well as I'm not a reflux person, but I think it could be important to try to match the heat inputs to the two boilers - can you really find 9kw of power to run them together ?

[Edit 2 Pa-Bon you may find that thread instructive too :8) ]
Pikey
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:02 am

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Pikey » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:21 pm

hoosier shine9 wrote:
...........As I am typing I am seeing a potential issue.....
as the column is in reflux there would be NO way to determine what boiler excess water/mash would go back into.....overfilling one of the kegs..... :cry:
Did I just answer my own question??? :oops:


Balancing tube (U tube full of wash from 1 keg to the other small tube inside your 4" branches - syphonage would keep the levels equal - not necessarily the abv's tho' :8)
Pikey
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:02 am

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby just sayin' » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:43 pm

My first thought was yes, feed master boiler into slave boiler, aka thumper and place to column on the second boiler. I haven't thought it thru...so just a brain fart to feed brain storming. Have at it....
just sayin'
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Pikey » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:52 am

Yes jS That sounds good, but if you have the thumper in reflux, then the charge coming over from the still will continue to come across and fill the thumper more and more with fresh condensate, so apart from the issue of overfilling, the reflux wouldn't be able to stabilise to draw off the foreshots and heads.

Sure we can knock down the evaporation from the thumper with the reflux condenser, but not from the first still.

Would need to slow the boiler down so only a tiny portion came across to replace the dripping from the reflux, but of course the condensate from the first still is relied upon for heating the thumper charge, so that wouldn't work I don't think.
Pikey
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:02 am

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Swedish Pride » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:12 am

Swedish Pride
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:52 pm
Location: Eire

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:42 am

Just a thought - using an upside down "Y" at the top to feed return reflux back to the two boilers; two heating elements with one controller; a connection between the two boilers near the bottom to equalize the two boiler charges. The connection could be a simple pipe joining the two boilers together - basically making the two boiler charges one single charge.

The "Y" at the top would provide the same "open-to-the-atmosphere" access to both boilers. The connection at the bottom between the two boilers would allow equalization of heat and fluid level. A drain valve could also be placed somewhere within the span of the bottom pipe for draining both boilers at the same time. I wouldn't think it would matter much which boiler the reflux returns to. As far as reflux goes, it would seem to matter most what goes on in the column.
User avatar
S-Cackalacky
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:13 pm
Location: The Mountains of Virginia

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby punkin » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:16 pm

Here's one we prepared earlier....

figgins.jpg


https://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/ ... g-still/p1

Short answer, yes it will work.
Image

Identified Shit Stirrer, upgraded to sociopath.

To the fashionable nationalists



http://www.stilldragon.com.au for all your distilling needs in Australia and New Zealand
User avatar
punkin
 
Posts: 11376
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:09 pm
Location: Northern NSW Orstrailya

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Kareltje » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:32 pm

Two boilers into one thumper can work, as is shown in the series Moonshiners. (Yes, I invite your comments! ;) )
I think at first glance that the reflux will balance itself between both boilers, depending on initial %ABV of the wash and heat input.
It indeed is interesting to think it over by starting with different situations and than thinking of the progress.
Maybe you use a thumper in the middle to buffer the reflux and put the column on top of that.

But the point is: why do you want to do it?
In the series Moonshiners the inventors wanted to mix grain and fruit, by fermenting separate and distilling into one product. They did not repeat the project, so the success is doubtfull.
(I vaguely remember a thread about the problems of mixing fruit and rye, so maybe they had a point.)
Why not mix the separate distillates after producing?
Kareltje
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Kareltje » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:45 pm

The bottleneck is the capacity of the column. Or the capacity of the condenser.

If you do not want to mix tastes, you could run one boiler as a thumper of the other.

In general there seem to be some constants in this hobby.
You can run two runs fast or make one run very slowly to get the same result.
Kareltje
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:45 pm

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby hoosier shine9 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:13 am

S-Cackalacky wrote:Just a thought - using an upside down "Y" at the top to feed return reflux back to the two boilers; two heating elements with one controller; a connection between the two boilers near the bottom to equalize the two boiler charges. The connection could be a simple pipe joining the two boilers together - basically making the two boiler charges one single charge.

The "Y" at the top would provide the same "open-to-the-atmosphere" access to both boilers. The connection at the bottom between the two boilers would allow equalization of heat and fluid level. A drain valve could also be placed somewhere within the span of the bottom pipe for draining both boilers at the same time. I wouldn't think it would matter much which boiler the reflux returns to. As far as reflux goes, it would seem to matter most what goes on in the column.


S-C
the only part I had Not considered was the connection at the bottom between the two boilers would allow equalization of heat and fluid level.

Punkin--the exact set up I was thinking....except the connection on the bottom from one boiler to the other.

Swedish Pride----Probably what I need to do.... :oops:

Kareltje---The purpose is solely to increase boiler size, not trying to combine 2 different flavors.
hoosier shine9
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:40 am

If you already have two kegs, it would seem to be a fairly simple and inexpensive thing to do. Would be cool to make it as modular as possible so that other configurations could be done - run a single boiler, use one of the kegs as a thumper, pot still mode, steam mash, etc. Just being able to join the two together would be great for large stripping runs.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
User avatar
S-Cackalacky
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:13 pm
Location: The Mountains of Virginia

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby punkin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:48 pm

Kareltje wrote:Two boilers into one thumper can work, as is shown in the series Moonshiners. (Yes, I invite your comments! ;) )
I think at first glance that the reflux will balance itself between both boilers, depending on initial %ABV of the wash and heat input.
It indeed is interesting to think it over by starting with different situations and than thinking of the progress.
Maybe you use a thumper in the middle to buffer the reflux and put the column on top of that.

But the point is: why do you want to do it?
In the series Moonshiners the inventors wanted to mix grain and fruit, by fermenting separate and distilling into one product. They did not repeat the project, so the success is doubtfull.
(I vaguely remember a thread about the problems of mixing fruit and rye, so maybe they had a point.)
Why not mix the separate distillates after producing?



I don't think you'll ever be taken seriously while you are quoting the series Moonshiners as a reference for technical aspects of distillation.
Image

Identified Shit Stirrer, upgraded to sociopath.

To the fashionable nationalists



http://www.stilldragon.com.au for all your distilling needs in Australia and New Zealand
User avatar
punkin
 
Posts: 11376
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:09 pm
Location: Northern NSW Orstrailya

Re: pondering....2 boilers into 1 column, would it work?

Postby Kareltje » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:30 pm

punkin wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Two boilers into one thumper can work, as is shown in the series Moonshiners. (Yes, I invite your comments! ;) )



I don't think you'll ever be taken seriously while you are quoting the series Moonshiners as a reference for technical aspects of distillation.

Maybe not, I do not mind. It is an easy reference, because everybody knows the series and it is easy to find it somewhere on the internet. So the technical aspects can be seen.
It is to everybody's own judgment to value this series.
In my case I have to deal with flawed translation as well. Fortunately I have some experience in fermenting, macerating and distilling and I know English rather well. So in my mind I can correct the obvious mistakes.
Despite these drawbacks I have learned a few things from the series.

But on topic again: I think 2 boilers on 1 column can work and adding a thumper or a slobber box in between might help.
I think that both %ABV and temperature will reach some equilibrium when you run quietly.
It also depends on the capacity of the column and the condenser, as I already wrote.
Kareltje
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:45 pm


Return to Mash, Ferment, & Distill

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests