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Grünne Nüsse

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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby punkin » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:46 pm

Don't get me wrong, the flavour itself is fantastic. The chocolate undertones are really only 'chocolaty'. There is no flavour i could compare that note to except chocolate, but it's not chocolate.

The pucker from the humulone is still there but it's not like anything else either.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:22 pm

A couple of years ago at the Proof show in Seattle (Woodinville actually) there were a couple of nocinos to taste. One of them was just ok, but the other was wonderful. I know there's a place in Snohomish that makes it, and with their reputation, I'll bet they made the good one.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby Kareltje » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:46 pm

Yesterday I collected some 43 grüne Nüsse, about 450 gr in total. The trees are on common ground and every september there are a lot of people collecting walnuts, so I wanted to be modest.
450 gr is not enough to make a Geist, but today I started one Orahovac and two Dio Palinkas. One of them with the 80 %ABV distillate of walnutgeistfeints plus neutral, the other with all neutral.
I put my hands in some plastic bags and cut them (the nuts!) in quarts. Most of the nuts were between 8 and 14 grams, mean being 10,8 grs.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby just sayin' » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:21 pm

Just a reminder-we are closing in on the traditional day to harvest green walnuts for Nocino, St. John the Baptist Day, June 24th. That date was right for Northern Italy, (Southern Hemisphere would be Christmas Eve). I have not yet found any walnuts as mature as most I have seen pictured. I will harvest a big batch the 24th, I will continue to harvest every week or ten days until the shells harden. I am very interested in seeing how the flavor changes as the nuts mature.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby just sayin' » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:00 pm

Just a heads up, this years walnuts are coming on fast. They will be ready to harvest within a few weeks in the mid-Atlantic area of the USA.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby sasquatch » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:31 pm

What about other nuts?
I was thinking Yellowhorn tree nuts.
Wall nuts are my least likeable but it sounds delicious.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby Kareltje » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:46 pm

Thanks for reminding! :8)
I think I will pass this year. I have not enough neutral and the batch of last year was not very succesful.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:27 am

sasquatch wrote:What about other nuts?
I was thinking Yellowhorn tree nuts.
Wall nuts are my least likeable but it sounds delicious.

It's not so much about the nut itself, but about the odd chemistry in that stainy walnut husk that nocino is all about. Dunno about yellowhorn nuts, but walnuts are the only nut I've seen where that green compound in the husk turns deep brown with oxidation.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby punkin » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:17 pm

Certainly doesn't taste like walnuts, more of a bitter choclately flavour.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby Kareltje » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:07 pm

About the colour: walnuthusks can be used to colour wool black.
And in grünne Nüsse or noix noirs the walnut itself is not yet developed but not older than an embryo. It is mainly the husk that is used.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby sasquatch » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:21 pm

Kareltje wrote:And in grünne Nüsse or noix noirs the walnut itself is not yet developed but not older than an embryo. It is mainly the husk that is used.


The yellow horn nut has the same green husk when young and turns brown with age just as the walnut.
That's why I was wondering.
Everything is eatable on a yellow horn tree as well. Leaves, flowers, nuts, nut oil.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby ElectricEd » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:08 am

I've just noticed this thread and must give a warning If you cut walnuts and don't IMMEDIATELY put them into alcohol you risk the nut oxidising and creating juglone which acts like cyanide. It occurs in any green walnut.
This is an excerpt from a paper on it:

Black Walnut Allelopathy:
Tree Chemical Warfare:
by Dr. Kim D. Coder Professor of Tree Biology & Health Care
Warnell School of Forestry & Natural Resources, University of Georgia
The biological system of a tree internally manages the economics of essential elements, water,
light, and metabolites to control health and growth. Externally, a tree must adjust to the presence of
other organisms and to the constraints of its site. Problems of surviving and thriving are associated with
capture and control of ecologically viable space, competition for essential inputs, and chemical coadaptation
to the presence of other organisms and to site attributes.
The chemical coadaptation to other organisms and site is termed allelopathy. Allelopathy is the
use of many different chemicals produced by many trees to interfere with the growth and development of
surrounding plants and microorganisms. This interference impacts essential resource quality and quantity
available on the site.
Poisoned!
One of the oldest known and most noticeable allelopathic effects in trees occurs in walnut
(Juglans spp.) associations. As early as 77 AD, the Juglans genera was cited by a Roman naturalist as
having a poisonous effect on other plants. Down through the years many people have used this toxic
characteristic of walnut to poison fish, treat human and animal diseases, keep broad-leaved weeds out of
lawns, and control garden plants. Dead tomatoes and other garden vegetables, sickly azaleas, and
stressed broad-leaved plants have all been a direct result of walnut poisoning.
Chemical Stew
Not every tree chemical has a significant ecological / allelopathic impact. For example, more than
35 phenolic compounds have been identified in walnuts, and more than 12 compounds just in the green
fruit husk. Many of these materials have been cited as expressing allelopathic symptoms in plants and
microorganisms. These compounds tend to peak in concentration early in the growing season after full
leaf expansion because of their role in new tissue protection. Several of the identified phenolic compounds
of walnuts have been shown to generate allelopathic impacts on surrounding plants. By far the largest
concentration (and one of the most toxic), usually present at >20 times more than all the other of these
allelopathic materials in walnut, is juglone.
A number of these phenolic compounds in walnut can act as antioxidants and are antimicrobial.
English walnut green husks, for example, have been used in health promoting tonics due to varied phenolic
contents. Juglone is also been considered as a food additive, wood preservative, and antifungal /
antibacterial agent. Juglone can also be found in other tree species conveying protective properties, such
as in teak bark (Tectona grandis).
The Black Walnut
Black walnut (Juglans nigra) of Eastern North America was first mentioned as having an inhibitory
effect on other vegetation by Hoy and Stickney in 1881. Since that time, numerous authors have
reported inhibition of plant growth in close association with black walnut trees.
The active agent inhibiting growth of other plants was suggested by Massey in 1925, and then
confirmed by Davis in 1928. The active allelopathic agent was juglone (5-hydroxy-1,4-naphthoquinone).
Figure 1. The effect of juglone on other plant tissues is to inhibit hydrogen ion transfer essential to
energy production in respiration, as well as inhibiting two different oxidation reactions. At low concentrations
(i.e. <3 μM), juglone can disrupt the electron transport system. At higher concentrations,
juglone increasingly inhibits oxidative phosphorylation.
Juglone is so toxic only minute amounts can sicken, sedate, or kill people and animals. The
concentration difference of juglone between that needed for sedation, and that causing death, is small.
Juglone disrupts oxygen and food use in both plants and animals, a respiration poison. Juglone is like
cyanide in its effect on people, animals, and plants.
Tax?
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby punkin » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:01 pm

Thanks Ed.
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby Copperhead road » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:04 pm

Nice pick up RefluxEd.... :wink:
my pet is a CCSC copper flute, I feed it corn and it pisses likker like a pony....
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Re: Grünne Nüsse

Postby der wo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:32 pm

I don't think you can avoid the juglone. If your maceration and the walnuts turn brown/black, you have got juglone. And AFAIK everyones result with this recipe is black.

Yes it's oxidation. It seems not possible to avoid this at least by maceration in ethanol.

In the green hulls is hydrojuglone-glykoside. It's colorless and relative unpoisonous. Then an enzyme forms hydrojuglone from it. And then it gets oxidized to juglone, which is black and poisonous.

Perhaps an antioxidans could prevent it. But perhaps only slow it down.
And of course redistillation would solve the problem, because juglone won't come over. But this way you would get a total different taste of course.

You can reduce the juglone content by watering the cutted walnuts a few days or weeks and replace the water every day, before mazerating in alcohol. You wash out the juglone and it's precursors. The taste will be less perfumed, more of the walnuts aroma will come through. Good or bad.

The question is, if after generations have consumed this traditional recipe without issues it really can be dangerous. Is it really too much juglone? Of course dangerous doesn't mean necessarily you get sick and die. It also can mean, you become a bit weakened and something else will make you health problems. At the end you will die a year earlier and you were two weeks more sick in your life. I don't know. I personally don't feel uncomfortable with drinking this spirit, because it's a traditional recipe, but I don't think this case is closed.
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