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Unmalted Barley

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Unmalted Barley

Postby vickrockafeller » Tue May 09, 2017 12:45 pm

Been doing a bit of research on using unmalted barley. From what I think I understand, if you are using enzymes you don't need to boil it like you do with corn, because it will Gel at temperatures as low as 60C/140F. In fact Boiling it would be bad, as you would be extracting tannins from the husk. So just milling it and holding it at conversion temperatures with enzymes, or some malted grain with enough diastatic power should be fine right?
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Swedish Pride » Tue May 09, 2017 1:05 pm

yep.
if you use malt, use at least 20% malt. I never go under 30% as my protocol is a bit dodgy, also more malt is tastier to me.
64c is better than 60c when using malt, use with enzymes only you need to consult the info you got with teh enzymes as they are all different
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby vickrockafeller » Tue May 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Thanks @swedish pride
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby just sayin' » Tue May 09, 2017 5:07 pm

Unmalted barley plus barley malt is the path to Irish single pot stilled whiskey, one fine dram! Good luck with you mashing.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Tue May 09, 2017 9:39 pm

How are you planning to mill that unmalted barley? When we first started looking at whiskey grain bills, I though we could get (state-certified) unmalted barley cheaper than malt, so we experimented with it.

In a conventional brewer's mill, milling unmalted barley is like milling granite chips, and I don't think our mill could take as much horsepower as would be needed without going belly-up fast. Maybe a diesel-powered mill with chrome-moly rollers and roller bearings the size of donuts would work.

A Corona mill might do it,with enough power applied, but you'd lose the ability to have a nice spargeable grain bed then.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Swedish Pride » Wed May 10, 2017 3:33 am

I find that unmalted wheat is hard as fuck, the unmalted barley from the feedstore is precracked and very easy to crack more, the wheat almost killed my drill :(
I use a corona and have milled lots of barley, malted and unmalted, but the wheat was a different kettle of fish, even the malted stuff was a pain.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby vickrockafeller » Wed May 10, 2017 9:53 am

@zymurgy bob. I was asking out of curiosity more than anything. Just in case I could find some unmalted barley for real cheap. Good to know about the challenges of milling though. I hadn't thought of that. I've been fermenting on the grain as well, so the the milling doesn't need to be pretty.
@swedish pride Could you use rolled wheat flakes so you don't need to mill at all? I've used small quantities in beer mashes and they didn't seem to gum up the mash too bad. You might be doing 50-100% wheat though which probably wouldn't work.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Wed May 10, 2017 5:52 pm

Damn, SP. I'll have to look into what our feedstores can supply. The hard uncracked stuff we got earlier was from a feedstore, but maybe we just didn't ask right.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Swedish Pride » Thu May 11, 2017 4:06 am

@vickrockafeller I would if they had it, but they only seem to have only type of each grain, wheat is whole, barley is cracked, corn is flaked, oats I've not got of em yet so don't know.
yeah, I'd use 100% wheat in my wheat mashes, a few kilos would have been handy to crack, next time I may just get it malted from the HBS and let them crack it for me.
BTW, flaked maize is soooo easy to work with but I would have preferred cracked corn, as i get no flavour out of the flaked stuff, a slight sweetness by no flavour :(

@Zbob, I've heard of some feedstores in US have a mill and can crack it for you?
If you have a few near you it does not hurt to ask, especially since you are legal and can ask right out.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Fri May 12, 2017 11:18 am

Zymurgy Bob wrote:Damn, SP. I'll have to look into what our feedstores can supply. The hard uncracked stuff we got earlier was from a feedstore, but maybe we just didn't ask right.


My local feed store has steam rolled barley and steam rolled corn. Both are easy to mill in a roller mill. I have a small hammer mill and grind them to just about flour (if you rub it between your fingers you can feel a little grit). But I ferment and distill on the grain. There is very little premium for the steam rolled stuff.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Fri May 12, 2017 12:59 pm

Swedish Pride wrote:@Zbob, I've heard of some feedstores in US have a mill and can crack it for you?
If you have a few near you it does not hurt to ask, especially since you are legal and can ask right out.

Thanks for that, SP, and I'll ask. I've been back in the feedstore warehouse a couple of times, and have seen no hint of a mill, but I'll ask.

Dunno if your local feedstores have it, but I used to make bourbon from feedstore hen scratch, something to throw on the ground so the chooks have something to play with, a mix of mostly cracked corn with some wheat, barley, and maybe millet. Different producers have slightly different grain bills, and we preferred Purina, but they're all similar.
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Re: Unmalted Barley

Postby Kareltje » Fri May 12, 2017 5:57 pm

I try making a series of grain plus sugar ferments and have done wheat. Germinate the wheat grains, boil wheatmeal, brew the meal with the sprouted grain, add sugar, ferment and distill.
I am now doing corn.
I tried barley, but the barley I bought from a foodshop did not germinate and I was told the grain is dehulled. I now got an adress of someone who has barley that will germinate. The same goes for oat, according to my information.
Of course barley and oat for farmers to sow will germinate, but I am afraid it also has pesticides, so can not be used to make drinks.

The meal of barley and oat I can simply buy at our local mill. Whether the grain is hard or soft, is their problem.

By the way: I do not mill my malt, but I soak it in water and then use a blender.
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