• Advertisement

AC's Bubble Column

These are boilers with half columns, bubble, sieve or any other plates. These stills may make a particular type of spirits. Please feel free to discuss the benefits and features of these beautiful machines and their inventive builders.

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Tracker » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:07 am

Mud wrote:What prevents a single valve, or maybe several, from just staying open while the others sit idle?


Never run one Mud but would have thought that the fluid weight above the valve trying to work it's way down past the rivet would eventually encourage the rivet to drop back.


Cheers.
User avatar
Tracker
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:05 pm
Location: The Land down under
Equipment type: 50 litre keg, SD 2" to 4" torpedo with 2 bubble plates, Dephlegmator, Pot still arm, copper SPP and condenser.(Tracker Stacker Flavour Packer)
Various pot still/thumper configurations.
Bok 2" slant plate for neutral and cleaning up mistakes.

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby acfixer69 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:19 am

Tracker wrote:
Mud wrote:What prevents a single valve, or maybe several, from just staying open while the others sit idle?


Never run one Mud but would have thought that the fluid weight above the valve trying to work it's way down past the rivet would eventually encourage the rivet to drop back.


Cheers.


Kind of. When a valve opens the pressure below it is lowered and the valve starts to close and the need to open moves to another valve and the cycle is repeated again and again. It can be proved with a physics answer but not by me.

AC
My 4" column build
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4800
User avatar
acfixer69
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:14 pm
Location: CT USA
Equipment type: Small pot still
4" modular bubble plate
15.5 gal keg with 2 45Kw elements /50 amp phase angle controller

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby acfixer69 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:25 am

FullySilenced wrote:Looking up the column a few posts... i see Harry's pop up valves...

I bet you could make those with new nickel plated 45 caliber rimmed cartridges fairly easy... (500 Smith and Wesson is larger) and let the rim seal on the plate...

May want to pickle the brass cases before use even... and a drop of solder in the primer pocket would make seal the end easy enough...

Didn't look but there are some larger flanged cartridges out there... this just popped into my head when i saw the photo and little video Harry made..

Happy Stillin

FS


I tried making one like Harry's with copper tube through the copper plate found like Larry suggested the valve had a tendency to rack and stick. Was much more complicated to fabricate I'm sure it could be figured out but I like the rivets and I had them. Oh yea they work too :D

AC
My 4" column build
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4800
User avatar
acfixer69
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:14 pm
Location: CT USA
Equipment type: Small pot still
4" modular bubble plate
15.5 gal keg with 2 45Kw elements /50 amp phase angle controller

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby halfbaked » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:13 am

The last time you posted the sight glasses were mailed to you were working great. Are there still no cracks? If you wanted a 4 in glass where/ how would you get it?
User avatar
halfbaked
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Harry » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:16 pm

acfixer69 wrote:
Tracker wrote:
Mud wrote:What prevents a single valve, or maybe several, from just staying open while the others sit idle?


Never run one Mud but would have thought that the fluid weight above the valve trying to work it's way down past the rivet would eventually encourage the rivet to drop back.


Cheers.


Kind of. When a valve opens the pressure below it is lowered and the valve starts to close and the need to open moves to another valve and the cycle is repeated again and again. It can be proved with a physics answer but not by me.

AC



Valve heads are raised by, and float on, the cushion of pressurized vapor in the column space below.

Imagine the valve is a hovercraft. Same principle. Vapor pressure is equal at all points in that lower chamber below the valvehead (or the hovercraft floor inside the skirt. Increase the vapor pressure (turn up the heat input) and valves will float higher and/or more valves will open (the vapor escape volume & velocity also increases). Decrease the vapor pressure (turn down the heat input) and the opposite happens. Valves float lower, some even closing, and less gas escapes into the liquid bath above the valve heads. Turn down still further and all the valves close. Gas distribution ceases and distilling stops.
The same gas distributing process happens in all injector types (valves, sieves & bubblecaps). Sieves require high pressure to work or they dump liquid & fail. Valves gas openings are variable. Valves have better turndown capability and still work (distributing gas). Bubblecaps gas openings are fixed by design. But they have the greatest turndown capability and can operate (distributing gas) at very low volume throughput. However they (caps) are the most expensive to fabricate (more metal, more tooling) and most likely to foul with debris. There's tradeoffs with all systems.
.


Slainte!
regards Harry
http://distillers.tastylime.net/

Winning the hearts & minds; one post at a time.
(you will be assimilated. resistance is futile.)
User avatar
Harry
 
Posts: 2428
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Paradise aka Cairns Qld Australia
Equipment type: 25 Lt 1500W elec. boiler, 2" x 40" packed column VM, x-flow O/head HX, crimp-path Liebig HX, VM proportioning valve, all in copper.
Various experimental gear.

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Tracker » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:22 pm

Good explanation Harry, even I could follow that reasoning.


Cheers.
User avatar
Tracker
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:05 pm
Location: The Land down under
Equipment type: 50 litre keg, SD 2" to 4" torpedo with 2 bubble plates, Dephlegmator, Pot still arm, copper SPP and condenser.(Tracker Stacker Flavour Packer)
Various pot still/thumper configurations.
Bok 2" slant plate for neutral and cleaning up mistakes.

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Mud » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:29 pm

I didn't understand that ideally they all rose together. I was picturing successive pops. Thanks for clarifying.

Seems like for best efficiency one would have to be careful of manufacturing tolerances. A heavy or wide valve might not move much, small ones might go early, etc. On a hobby level it wouldn't matter much if they all worked flawlessly or not.

Neat idea.
Specialization is for Kiwi.
Artisan Distilling Book
User avatar
Mud
 
Posts: 4334
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:10 pm
Location: The wilds of PA, USA
Equipment type: Keg based pot - sometimes propane powered but mostly electric

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby acfixer69 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:01 pm

In the Ideal column I suppose the vapor moves upward at an equally distributive manor. However I have found the there is some read a lot of turbulence in the vapors rising upward. After column equalization the random valve closing/dropping is less radical. I hope some one builds and shares the tolerances and clearances of Harry's valve. Then post a video I feel the horizontal discharge of the gas vapors is worth some extra labor but not by me. The rivet valve closes for plate loading and hold at a reasonable turndown rate and is self draining at the end of the run. Works for me. If you feel different please build it and show it we all want to see new ideas in motion.

Halfbaked, 4" Sight glass is available at the Grangers/MacMasterCarr sources at big bucks. I looked for a while as I wanted then for the 6" I am building ATM. I asked Ari @ SD to talk to Larry about them since the 6" home build market is growing. I settled for 3" SD and I am happy with the visibility.

AC
My 4" column build
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4800
User avatar
acfixer69
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:14 pm
Location: CT USA
Equipment type: Small pot still
4" modular bubble plate
15.5 gal keg with 2 45Kw elements /50 amp phase angle controller

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Harry » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:31 am

Those I built (per the animated gif worked ok in tests (small 2" diam column). But yeast gum & other debris tended to foul them, causing some sticking (not a real problem while running though as pressure holds them open).
However this required careful cleaning between runs to ensure they were actually closed and free to lift properly at startup. Else the refluxing liquid would dump.

I've come a long way in valve development since those days. Simple discs & simpler still [anti-spin] connectors (no wear) make for a LOT less trouble. Free to lift, easy to clean, a breeze to fabricate at home and very cheap. And they work... :8)
.


Slainte!
regards Harry
http://distillers.tastylime.net/

Winning the hearts & minds; one post at a time.
(you will be assimilated. resistance is futile.)
User avatar
Harry
 
Posts: 2428
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Paradise aka Cairns Qld Australia
Equipment type: 25 Lt 1500W elec. boiler, 2" x 40" packed column VM, x-flow O/head HX, crimp-path Liebig HX, VM proportioning valve, all in copper.
Various experimental gear.

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Pennsyltuckie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:08 pm

I am curious to know why no one solder's or brazes the bubbler plates right in the column and just rely on the downcomer tube to do it's job. Is it because people want to be able to make changes later if necessary? I assume it is.
User avatar
Pennsyltuckie
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:34 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby zedzedtop » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:27 pm

I soldered my caps on with soft solder so I could do just that.
'Bubble cap plates are better for batch distillation than perforated plates' - Benjamin Franklin

Fortune cookie: Your whole family are well
User avatar
zedzedtop
 
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:20 pm
Location: NorCal
Equipment type: 25G pot, gas or 4500w
pot head or 4'' 3plate bubbler, cm

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby acfixer69 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:43 pm

I soft soldered mine to the plate also and never had a need to remove even one. I have since gone to running a larger single cap on on each plate with a SS nut/bolt and found it great with the single larger size.. It is much easier to work with but still would not hesitate to solder them.

AC
My 4" column build
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4800
User avatar
acfixer69
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:14 pm
Location: CT USA
Equipment type: Small pot still
4" modular bubble plate
15.5 gal keg with 2 45Kw elements /50 amp phase angle controller

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Pennsyltuckie » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:41 pm

AC, I am thinking of making my bubble cap plates similar to what you originally posted on the first page of this thread. Thinking back on it, would you recommend going with this design so it can be removable to make adjustments? What was the tolerance between the plates and the column?
User avatar
Pennsyltuckie
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:34 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby acfixer69 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:11 am

Pennsyltuckie wrote:AC, I am thinking of making my bubble cap plates similar to what you originally posted on the first page of this thread. Thinking back on it, would you recommend going with this design so it can be removable to make adjustments? What was the tolerance between the plates and the column?


I assume you are referring to a tree style assembly. Although this has been used successfully by many for years it was best used with sieve plates. The blow by just added the need for more power. With caps the leakage made them less efficient so the extra time and cash to build caps was a waste. I tried several methods to remedy the blow by but it would eventually leak by. So I went to a modular setup which works perfectly.
Hope that was said clear enough.

AC
My 4" column build
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4800
User avatar
acfixer69
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:14 pm
Location: CT USA
Equipment type: Small pot still
4" modular bubble plate
15.5 gal keg with 2 45Kw elements /50 amp phase angle controller

Re: AC's Bubble Column

Postby Pennsyltuckie » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:54 am

Thank you. That answers my question perfectly. Maybe I should solder the plates in the column then? I am just so worried that I will need to change or adjust something later (hence the need for a modular setup). It will add a lot more cost to the build for all of the extra fittings, gaskets, and clamps.
User avatar
Pennsyltuckie
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:34 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Previous

Return to Tray Columns (Bubble, Sieve, etc...)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests