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4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

These are boilers with half columns, bubble, sieve or any other plates. These stills may make a particular type of spirits. Please feel free to discuss the benefits and features of these beautiful machines and their inventive builders.

Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Mud » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:15 am

Wet dog & musty? Maybe you should cut tails earlier?
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:33 am

Well, it appears that I don't know what your problem is, but I'm pretty sure I know what it isn't, and it isn't because your distilling hardware isn't complex enough. I'm currently working on a series of corn-based mashes and distillations (allgrain, feed store henscratch) in my potstill, which is pretty plain-jane, and the distillate has a very nice corn-grainy flavor, and from experience, I expect it to get very bourbon-like when it's oaked and aged.

If your distillate is nice coming out of the still, but gets odd after oaking, I'd suspect something in the oak or oaking process, and not something that would be changed by changing the still design. Solve your flavor problem first, and then get the plated still if you feel you need it.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob- ... e-spirits/

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and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But...
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Mud » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:11 pm

Cedar Grove wrote:but seems to get funky when Diluted with Rainwater, and aged on Oak.


That's 2 actions. Is it funky before the oak? Or only after. If water brings it out then either your water or spirit is what needs work. if only after oaking then...wait for it...it's the oak.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Cedar Grove » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:15 pm

To answer a few Questions on My Results:
I am planning to upgrade my Equipment anyway, hopefully learing to produce better Spirits.
The Priduct tastes fine after the second Distillation, a bit heavy on the Grain.
My all mostly Corn batches taste slightly sweet, and are plenty aromatic.

Maybe it's the Oak I'm using. It only gets funky after sitting on the Oak. I was originally aging it at 120 Proof, and it was too woody tasting.
Several Poster here said to cut it to 90-100 proof an try that, which I did. I've tried Oak cubes from BSG, and locally sourced White oak Toasted and Charred. I'm thinking that the Oak needs to leach out some in the Weather before processing? My next step is trying to get some Barrel Staves or Cooperage off cuts to try.
I appreciate your Help,
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Swede » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:36 pm

Cedar Grove wrote:To answer a few Questions on My Results:
I am planning to upgrade my Equipment anyway, hopefully learing to produce better Spirits.
The Priduct tastes fine after the second Distillation, a bit heavy on the Grain.
My all mostly Corn batches taste slightly sweet, and are plenty aromatic.

Maybe it's the Oak I'm using. It only gets funky after sitting on the Oak. I was originally aging it at 120 Proof, and it was too woody tasting.
Several Poster here said to cut it to 90-100 proof an try that, which I did. I've tried Oak cubes from BSG, and locally sourced White oak Toasted and Charred. I'm thinking that the Oak needs to leach out some in the Weather before processing? My next step is trying to get some Barrel Staves or Cooperage off cuts to try.
I appreciate your Help,
Cedar Grove


I can relate to your experience regarding potstilled spirits. I found them to be a bit rich on flavor but liked things better once I put a thumper on the potstill. Things only got better from there once I moved up to the tray column. Making the proper tails cut will help with any "wet cardboard funk" you are experiencing.

Oak will only make a real improvement if given the time to do so. It's hard to wait but 6 months really makes a difference. Barrel capacity is key too, if you are spending money on barrels, don't get anything smaller than 20-30L capacity... Larger barrels for more time will reward you every time, why do you think the big boys do it that way?

Cheers, and best of luck.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Cedar Grove » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:08 am

Well, I recieved my once used 8 Gallon Bourbon Barreel last Week. I'll see if I can get enough to fill it in the next few Weeks.
I will check the Tails Cut again. It might be some not so great Oak thta gives the Funky Flavor. I knwo what Tails right off the still tastes and smells like. Yuk!
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Cedar Grove » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:11 am

Swede, what is your Thought on using brass for Bubble Cap trays? I might have a line on some Cheap Brass Plate.
It's easier to solder than Stainless, I know it won't remove sulphur Compounds like Copper. It is easy to work though.
I don't weld Yet, I fab it up and have a Neighbore TIG it.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Swede » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:34 pm

I'd stay away from brass due to the possibility of lead...
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Harry » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:38 pm

Brass and bronze come in various grades, some are lead free. Lead is only added to the alloy to ease machining.
http://www.engineersedge.com/brass.htm

Even then, there are treatment methods to remove surface lead from brass for brewery usage. See John Palmer " How To Brew"...
http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html

HTH
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Cedar Grove » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:50 am

I am familiar with the different Grades of Brass. C360 is most common, and has 8-12% Lead added to make machining easier.
Most Plumbing Fixtures, Faucets, and such all contain significant amount of Lead. I am not suggesting putting Brass into the Boiler. only in the Column. Any Lead that Leached, would in Theory dropm back into the Boiler. No Brass would be downstream of the Vapor.

My Condenser is Shell and Tube 316L Stainless. I think the Lead issue is mostly Paranoia. Lead is all around, but not all is is a soluble Form.
Paint Dust is about the work, Metallic Lead is far less likely to leach except under specioal Conditions.
Cedar Grove

Do You think 3/4" Tubing for the Bubble Caps to sit on would be enough? I was planning using is for the Downcomer also, and using 1" or 1.250 caps.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Harry » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:05 am

Anywhere you use brass in food processing equipment, be sure to pickle it as per John Palmer's instructions. And repeat it occasionally in your cleaning regimen when required (colour change of the brass will tell you when that's needed). Then you're safe. If you can't or won't do that, then pick a safer metal (stainless).

Gas injectors (caps & risers) and liquidy inlets/outlets (downcomers) are all sized according to how fast you want to run and how much material you want to move, and still avoid flood or puke problems.
1+1/4" caps and 3/4" risers will give you a 1/4" annular clearance inside the cap (important) and are probably adequate for a 4" tray. 1" downcomers would be better to avoid excess liquid/foam holdup & flooding. Draw it to scale first. Them make changes as required. It's cheaper than cutting metal and making retrofits. :)


HTH
.


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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Cedar Grove » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:45 am

Thanks Harry sounds like good Advice. I could use just about anything for ther Plates, I was just being lazy. Brass and Copper are much easier to solder than Stainless. I haven't found the right Flux yet to use with Copper and Stainless. In the Past I used Eutectic 157 Solder and Flux.

The Tray would be for a 5" Column. I could make it in 4", if I have enough Material still around.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Harry » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:07 pm

Cedar Grove wrote:Thanks Harry sounds like good Advice. I could use just about anything for ther Plates, I was just being lazy. Brass and Copper are much easier to solder than Stainless. I haven't found the right Flux yet to use with Copper and Stainless. In the Past I used Eutectic 157 Solder and Flux.

The Tray would be for a 5" Column. I could make it in 4", if I have enough Material still around.
Cedar Grove



Harris stay clean flux (the liquid. NOT the paste)
Harris stay brite8 solder (96% tin 4% silver)

Works on most metals (NOT aluminum. Harris has another product for Alu)
Copper to copper, copper to stainless, s/s to s/s etc.

Dimpling and soldering a 1/2" NPT coupler in a stainless homebrew kettle / pot .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpMFQFi6Hh4






SIlver Soldering a Keggle

pt 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oHvEq6tm-o


pt 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zCXq0nQoWU




Solder On Triclover Flange

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NkHlDql8EU




HTH
.


Slainte!
regards Harry
http://distillers.tastylime.net/

Winning the hearts & minds; one post at a time.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Cedar Grove » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:09 am

Thanks Harry for the Solder Tip, it's apparently the same Compostion as the Eutectic 157 I used before.
I can't find it any more. I'm torn between making the Column in 4" and easy access to Fittings, or going to 5".
What do You think the Max reasonable Boiler size would be for 4"? I don't really want to build anything twice.

I'm probably going to sketch it out with 3/4" Copper tubes to hold 1 1/4" Caps and a 1" Downcomer with a J bend as You recommended.
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Re: 4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

Postby Hound Dog » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:03 pm

Cedar Grove wrote: I haven't found the right Flux yet to use with Copper and Stainless.
Cedar Grove

Harry is right, Stay Clean is a great flux for stainless but if you can't find it local, Oatey liquid flux will do the job also. I have also found that once you have obtained a good bond and got everything tinned up with the silver solder, any gaps can be bridged and filled with regular solder as the two solders will adhere.
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