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Sour Dough

Please share your favorites that you cook with your spirits or commercial stuff. We love alcohol flavored food.

Re: Sour Dough

Postby vb » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:02 pm

put my starter on today, we'll see how it develops.
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby Mud » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:39 pm

Just re-read this thread and some other stuff...Gonna wait another day or 2. Good luck, VB.
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby Mud » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:57 pm

Made a loaf a couple days ago. It's got just a hint of sour, and not real bubbly. The starter is currently sleeping in the fridge. Will make another loaf tomorrow and compare. BTW, King Arthur Flour sells starters.

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Re: Sour Dough

Postby mtnwalker » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:33 pm

Made some starter years ago, but did a lot of research first. What I found then was that whole rye grains, crushed, made the very best starter of all, especially if it came from the Germanic countries of Europe. Worked well for me, and it was almost explosive. Then I tempered it to our US whole wheat.

Now, I am thinking about another starter, but leaving as it developes, as I really like Rye breads. Wanting to use that as a base for buckwheat pancakes, and muffins as well.

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Re: Sour Dough

Postby vb » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:23 pm

gotta restart mystarter.
started to bubble and turn sour smelled perfectly like the sour component to sourdough but its stopped bubbling and now the water and flour are separating out.
Guess I killed it.
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby Mud » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:35 pm

removed comment - pretty certain it was wrong
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby recession proof » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:49 am

started to bubble and turn sour smelled perfectly like the sour component to sourdough but its stopped bubbling and now the water and flour are separating out.
Guess I killed it.


Hey VB it takes a couple of weeks for the bacteria and yeast to figure themselves out. You starter sounds out of whack but not necessarily dead.

Throw away 90% of what you have then add 65 grams of water and 90 grams of flour. After 24 hours, repeat the cycle. Keep doing this until your starter starts smelling sweetly sour and not just sour.
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby jose » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:19 pm

VB
Like RP says. Pour off the clear liquid and add more flour and a little distilled water.
Needs to be fed on a regular basis.
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby Mud » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:20 pm

I gave up. Ordered one from Friends of Carl. It'll be here in a couple weeks.

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Re: Sour Dough

Postby Mud » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:36 pm

Apparently I quit wrong. Found one of my starters over by the stove. I fed that one with rye flour and now it's working like a champ. Took the pic while it was risen.

sourdough starter 2 small.jpg
sourdough starter 2 small.jpg (55.47 KiB) Viewed 5994 times


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<edit to add picture>
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby thumperhead » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:14 pm

Has anyone tried using some barley ground to flour?Doesn't it have all kinds of yeast on the hulls?I'm wondering if you could get it to out compete any nasties doing a 50/50 mix of barley flour/wheat flour and water?
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby myles » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:37 pm

I love baking with the italian biga style doughs, but have any of you had much success with the french style. We have problems getting the right flour here, and it is quite a protracted - 3 or 4 day process just to get started.
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby sourdoh » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:40 pm

myles wrote:have any of you had much success with the french style[?]

Our house loaf is Pain Au Levain (frenchy for "wild yeast bread") which is not really "sour" but uses the culture of wild yeast and their attendant lactobacilli to create some fantastic flavors. If anyone is familiar with Acme Bread Company (Arguably best large bakery in the San Francisco bay area), Pain Au Levain is supposedly what launched them.

I am lucky in that long fermentations work best with my baking schedule and fit in around work and raising small kids. This method avoids the long periods of kneading too. Here is the formula for 2 loaves (from Hammelman's Bread) and my schedule:
(This assumes that your culture is fairly active, it's only been a few days dormant in the fridge. If it's been longer, feed the culture for 3 or more feeding cycles of 8-12 hours first.)

Levain Build:
Bread or All Purpose Flour - 4.6 oz (1 C)
Medium Rye Flour - .3 oz (1/8 C)
Water - 3 oz (3/8 C)
Mature (stiff) culture - 1 oz (2 T) (obviously this will be added later)

Final Build:
Bread or AP Flour - 1 lb 3.4 oz (4-1/2 C)
Whole-wheat Flour - 6.4 oz (1-1/2 C)
Medium Rye Flour - 1.3 oz (3/8 C)
Salt - .6 oz (1 T)
Water - 1 lb 2.8 oz (2-3/8 C)
Levain - 8.9 oz (all of it, obviously this is added later)

day 1 pm - feed the culture from the fridge to get it active, let it ferment all night; measure out the dry ingredients for "levain build" and "final build" in separate pyrex containers, measure out water for each in mason jars.

day 2 am - Some time before going to work: measure out the culture into a bowl, slowly mix in the water so that it is a paste (not too clumpy), mix in the flour mixture, cover and let it ferment all day (ideally 12 hrs)

day 2 pm - Home from work, have dinner, mix everything for the final build except the levain (I also withhold the salt), let it set to autolyze (hydrate the flour) for 20-60 minutes; put the kids to bed;
Scrape the dough onto the counter and smear it out into a 1/2 to 1 inch layer, smear the levain build on top into a fairly even layer (sprinkle with salt if it was withheld). Smoosh (technical term) with your hands and knead enough to get it all well integrated. (Or mix it all up in a stand mixer)
Cover in the bowl for 2-1/2 hours; twice at 50 minute intervals do a "stretch and fold" by plopping the dough onto a lightly floured counter, stretch it out into a rectangle at least 12" by 12", fold the left third over the middle, fold the right third over the middle (now it's three layers), fold the top third over the middle, and the bottom third over the middle (now it's 9 layers), plop it back in the bowl.
Cut into two pieces, shape into balls or oblongs; place the dough seam side up in a basket, small mixing bowl, colander (etc.) lined with a linen or tight weave cotton towel dusted with flour;

Three final rise options at this point:
1. Final rise 2-2.5 hrs at room temp then bake
2. 45 minutes at room temp, then into the fridge to retard overnight (further flavor development and final proof) bake the next morning
3. Straight into the fridge for up to ~18 hours to retard (Hey, no Mud jokes here) bake before supper the next night.

Bake:
Pre-heat the oven at 500 degF for preferably at least an hour
Two bake options:
1. No-Knead Method: Preheat with a heavy dutch oven or lidded pyrex casserole dish in the oven;
Pull out the vessel, dump in the dough, replace the lid, put it back in the oven, lower oven to 440 degF;
Bake for 20-30 minutes, remove the lid and leave for 15-20 minutes more until brown.

2. I use a baking/pizza stone (actually "unglazed quarry" floor tiles) in the middle rack with a big cast iron fry pan on the bottom; heat 1 C hot water in the microwave or put on the kettle;
Flip the doughs out onto parchment paper on a rimless cookie sheet, (I slash the top with a bread knife to prevent a blowout)
Slide dough onto the stone and pour 1/2 C water into the pan, shut the door quickly to keep in the steam; lower oven temp to 440 degF; steam twice more at 3-5 min intervals; rotate at 20 minutes for even browning; bake a total of 40-45 minutes.

Notes:
1. Sourdough cultures do best with chlorine free water so use filtered/bottled/rain water.
2. If you like whiter bread, replace the whole wheat with all white flour, that would be 1 lb 9.8 oz (5-7/8 C).
3. Resist the temptation to cut it open immediately; It needs min 1 hr (pref 2 hr) for the crumb to set or it will be gummy in the middle. Everyone likes warm bread, but keep in mind even lousy bread tastes pretty good warm, but good bread tastes great at room temp. We keep our butter in a butter bell on the counter.
4. I hope this doesn't look too complicated, it's really not that bad once you have the sequence down; much easier than cooking a wash, fermenting it and distilling it. (Maybe I should made a video of the whole process)
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby myles » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:33 pm

sounds good to me sourdoh, I quite like the final rise in the fridge system.

You got me thinking now. I have two 1/2" thick slabs of stone, that came out of the base of a knackered snooker table. I think it is slate of some sort, but it seems more solid than roofing slates, can't see any distinct layers layers in it. Been sat in the store for several years. Perhaps I should cut a piece to fit the oven. :8)
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Re: Sour Dough

Postby sourdoh » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:03 pm

Yeah, retarding dough in the fridge is a great technique for both flavor and convenience.

I think slate should work fine, especially as you say it doesn't seem very layered. Slate is a traditional material for oven floors. Just make sure to drive out any moisture before cranking up the heat. Leave it in the sun and/or put it in a moderate oven for many hours or a whole day.
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